5 thoughts on “What if we never get rid of the Union?

  1. self craptulisation (@Superboak) says:

    I’ve got two points to make.
    First, the argument for focusing on independence and being a bit more pragmatic than we’d like to be in order to achieve it is that if independence is achieved it would make it so so much easier to sort out the problems Scotland has such as income inequality and poor health.
    It’s not just some mad dream that exists for its own sake.
    Secondly, I have to take issue with the NHS analogy. The SNP are not to blame for the “current constitutional situation”, whereas the Tories are absolutely to blame for their downright evil attack on the NHS. There is absolutely no comparison to be made here and doing so only gives ammunition to the likes of Labour who would rather score political points against the SNP than actually take on the Tories’ Dickensian assault on the vulnerable.
    To imply that the SNP would deliberately not try to fix Scotland”s problems in the hope of gaining independence is some Project Fear level nonsense, unless you have evidence to the contrary.
    If there were no hope of independence then we would have to re-evaluate and refocus our plans to help Scotland. But that isn’t the case. So while we have the chance, let’s focus on the best chance we have to secure a bright future for Scotland: independence.
    Oh and by the way, I voted Green at the last election.

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  2. daval82 says:

    One your first point, I’d say the idea that treading carefully makes independence more likely is an untested hypothesis rather than an indisputable certainty.

    Serious political offers will always put someone off, so – for example – moving towards property tax/land value tax would alienate some people, as would raising taxes on higher earners. This process cuts both ways though, and these proposals would convince other people that an independent Scotland would take inequality seriously. What’s more, by increasing the money available to invest in society and bringing derelict land back into use, such measures could provide a stronger base on which to build the case for independence – a Scotland with more of its local services intact, maybe even one with a more varied and affordable housing market.

    We can disagree on tactics here, and I’m sure we can all invoke polls and statistics to defend our positions. Still, if there is anything – anything– we can do to help shift power and resources in our society into areas where they are urgently needed, I’ll find myself erring on the side of doing what we can now rather than holding back for a day that may never come.

    As you can probably tell, the urgency of The Familiar‘s appeal is hard for me to reject. We see the effects of UK government cuts and economic policy all around us, and while fighting this is from our current position isn’t easy, that seems to me to be a poor reason not to fight it any way we can.

    With regards to your second point, on The Familiar‘s NHS comparison: we could wrestle with the question of whether the SNP (who operate within constitutional arrangement they do not wish to continue) could adopt the tactics used by the Conservatives (who operate a system of socialized medical care they do not wish to continue), but I’d rather try to untangle some points of attribution in this debate.

    So just as Wee Ginger Dug didn’t make the argument that the Yes movement should relish the idea of the Tories running the country into the ground, you’ll note that The Familiar didn’t attribute this view to the SNP either.

    These ideas exist in the air of the argument, in the gaps between positions that people on various sides are want to fill with hope, fear and interpretation.

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  3. Jamesa says:

    “What do we say to the poor & vulnerable then? Sorry – it’s Indy or nothing!”

    But the problem is that it suits the SNP’s purpose to keep Scotland poor and disadvantaged.

    They have to sell the poor and vulnerable the fantasy that their lives will be positively transformed by independence.

    If they actually did make Scotland a better, fairer and more equal place as part of the Union then that would potentially make people think ‘I don’t need independence, my life has already been made better as part of the UK’.

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